He is correct in saying that we are each free to believe what we want, but it must be really sad to choose to believe that there is nothing more. As a Christian with 4 science degrees, the wonders of our world and the universe we live in only strengthens my belief in a higher being. Hawking is a truly brilliant man and it is a crying shame that such wonderful mind as his is burdened by such a terrible disease. This makes me wonder.....is there some bitterness behind his statements? I can't say that I would blame him. Just curious.
Matt, you really are trying to start something on this site aren't you? I'm beginning to think that your atheism is what defines you as a person....or as a purposeless and randomly generated series of chemical reactions, as it were.
Squeej, You are correct in assuming I'm trying to "start something". That something just happens to be a discussion. You are wrong in your assumption that I am atheist. I do not deny the possibility that there exists a higher power that rules over all that is. I do, however, have my qualms with the traditional christian representation of "God", but that's neither here nor there. I think it's laughable that you would take the time to comment on this post proclaiming you think you know me as a person when, if only you'd browse through my other tacks, you see I can be defined by much more. But you have no interest in that apparently. Rather, you jump to a conclusion based off of your incomplete knowledge of me and, perhaps a deep seeded need to combat any views that appose yours. Please, argue with me. Discuss the topics that I present. This is why I post these controversial articles and stories. But please, have the decency and self-respect not to stoop to labeling or judging people before properly getting to know them.
So you don't have a problem with god per se, you just haven't found the god that suits your ideas of what God should be? In other words, you have seen the God of the Bible and you don't like him so much, so you'll just keep looking. No?
Thank you. I appreciate the apology. I was born and raised in a religious family and was quite devout in my earlier years. I then began seeing aspects of the church that I didn't like. At that point in my life I decided to open my mind up to alternative explanations for existence. I've acquainted myself with many different religions and read and been fascinated by scientific theories and research that try to nail down our origins. Though I've always had a spiritual side (As I believe every living entity does), I began seeing much more truth in science than what was taught in religion. I do have a problem with the god in the bible. I have a problem with the bible in general. I also have a problem with people who allow themselves to put so much weight in what the bible says. After all, it is simply ink on paper, created by humans. Whether or not it was inspired by divinity, I cannot say. However, if a divine power inspired the authors to write "his" words, why then would "he" choose to use a medium so vulnerable to misinterpretation? I do have issues with the god of the bible. I have big problems with the concept of a humanoid god who watches over us all and has a stake in our choosing right or wrong or that he is on one side of this cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Rather, I see God as everything. You are God, this computer screen is God, the atoms that make everything you perceive are all God. There is nothing that is not God (including things we would classify as evil). God is the beginning, middle, and end because God IS everything. I'm sorry, but it just seems so elementary to think of a god who in so many ways resembles us. It seems like such an archaic and naive way to describe a spiritual figurehead.
I would love to carry on this conversation, but the issue with the ever-decreasing size of the comments is a bit off putting. Perhaps a Google+ conversation? Are you on G+?
I'm not sure that atheism really defines anyone. Atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god. Perhaps atheism could lead to lack of definition? Many atheists may be more vocal against specific religions, but that is mostly focused on the major religions. I don't hear anyone decrying Zeus, for example.
Atheism is actually a denial of the existence of a god. Agnosticism is more of a lack of belief. An Atheist is convinced there is no god, where an Agnostic recognizes there isn't enough evidence to prove one way or another.
You bring up a good point with Zeus, actually. Why do you think it is that we now see the mythology of Zeus as just that, myth? While the modern monotheistic christian's view of the biblical god (similar to Zeus in many ways) is perceived as a true representation of the governing power of the universe.
I prefer the explanation of atheism/theism and agnosticism/gnosticism as independent, rather than on a spectrum of belief. The atheism/theism is more of the position, whereas the agnosticism/gnosticism is confidence in that position. So there can be gnostic theists, gnostic atheists, agnostic theists, and agnostic atheists.
Regarding Zeus (and other gods no longer worshipped), they were probably just replaced by a different belief that made more sense to the people at that time and place. As I commented below, I expect that as we discover more about our universe, the current favored religions will also abate.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16 - "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
A natural man who was admitting that he was just a child in Christ, and could only speak of those things of flesh, not that he could determine the mind of God.
Really? A flesh and blood human being didn't write the bible, translate it from ancient Hebrew into the many proceeding languages, and then create different variations (NIV, KJ, NKJ, etc)? I realize there is no way to dispute the argument used by biblical believers that "god inspired the authors of the scriptures". However, You cannot dispute the fact that humans have had their dirty hands all over it for almost 4,000 years! You can quote scriptures all you want, that doesn't make the bible any more divine than the Torah, the book of Mormon, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Quran, Tao Te Ching, or the Satanic Bible. And it most certainly doesn't give credence to your argument any more than if I were to quote Dr. Seuss in arguing all eggs are green.
BTW, you don't have a point. You never stated a point. You posted a passage from a book. That said nothing.
We're are fortunate to be alive during this time. The body of scientific knowledge has grown amazingly over the past 100 years, and has provided explanations for numerous phenomena that previously were unknown. I expect that as our knowledge increases, more people will come to the same realization as Stephen Hawking.
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17 comments
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Filadog 11 years, 3 months ago
He is correct in saying that we are each free to believe what we want, but it must be really sad to choose to believe that there is nothing more. As a Christian with 4 science degrees, the wonders of our world and the universe we live in only strengthens my belief in a higher being. Hawking is a truly brilliant man and it is a crying shame that such wonderful mind as his is burdened by such a terrible disease. This makes me wonder.....is there some bitterness behind his statements? I can't say that I would blame him. Just curious.
Reply
squeej 11 years, 3 months ago
Matt, you really are trying to start something on this site aren't you? I'm beginning to think that your atheism is what defines you as a person....or as a purposeless and randomly generated series of chemical reactions, as it were.
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
Squeej,
You are correct in assuming I'm trying to "start something". That something just happens to be a discussion.
You are wrong in your assumption that I am atheist. I do not deny the possibility that there exists a higher power that rules over all that is. I do, however, have my qualms with the traditional christian representation of "God", but that's neither here nor there.
I think it's laughable that you would take the time to comment on this post proclaiming you think you know me as a person when, if only you'd browse through my other tacks, you see I can be defined by much more.
But you have no interest in that apparently. Rather, you jump to a conclusion based off of your incomplete knowledge of me and, perhaps a deep seeded need to combat any views that appose yours.
Please, argue with me. Discuss the topics that I present. This is why I post these controversial articles and stories. But please, have the decency and self-respect not to stoop to labeling or judging people before properly getting to know them.
Reply
squeej 11 years, 3 months ago
So you don't have a problem with god per se, you just haven't found the god that suits your ideas of what God should be? In other words, you have seen the God of the Bible and you don't like him so much, so you'll just keep looking. No?
Reply
squeej 11 years, 3 months ago
You know what? You're right...I described you as an atheist without knowing that for a fact. I apologize for my incorrect assumption.
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
Thank you. I appreciate the apology.
I was born and raised in a religious family and was quite devout in my earlier years. I then began seeing aspects of the church that I didn't like. At that point in my life I decided to open my mind up to alternative explanations for existence. I've acquainted myself with many different religions and read and been fascinated by scientific theories and research that try to nail down our origins.
Though I've always had a spiritual side (As I believe every living entity does), I began seeing much more truth in science than what was taught in religion.
I do have a problem with the god in the bible. I have a problem with the bible in general. I also have a problem with people who allow themselves to put so much weight in what the bible says. After all, it is simply ink on paper, created by humans. Whether or not it was inspired by divinity, I cannot say. However, if a divine power inspired the authors to write "his" words, why then would "he" choose to use a medium so vulnerable to misinterpretation?
I do have issues with the god of the bible. I have big problems with the concept of a humanoid god who watches over us all and has a stake in our choosing right or wrong or that he is on one side of this cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Rather, I see God as everything. You are God, this computer screen is God, the atoms that make everything you perceive are all God. There is nothing that is not God (including things we would classify as evil). God is the beginning, middle, and end because God IS everything. I'm sorry, but it just seems so elementary to think of a god who in so many ways resembles us. It seems like such an archaic and naive way to describe a spiritual figurehead.
Reply
squeej 11 years, 3 months ago
I would love to carry on this conversation, but the issue with the ever-decreasing size of the comments is a bit off putting. Perhaps a Google+ conversation? Are you on G+?
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
I am. You should be able to find me rather easily.
Reply
egro 11 years, 3 months ago
I'm not sure that atheism really defines anyone. Atheism is merely the lack of belief in a god. Perhaps atheism could lead to lack of definition? Many atheists may be more vocal against specific religions, but that is mostly focused on the major religions. I don't hear anyone decrying Zeus, for example.
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
Atheism is actually a denial of the existence of a god. Agnosticism is more of a lack of belief. An Atheist is convinced there is no god, where an Agnostic recognizes there isn't enough evidence to prove one way or another.
You bring up a good point with Zeus, actually. Why do you think it is that we now see the mythology of Zeus as just that, myth? While the modern monotheistic christian's view of the biblical god (similar to Zeus in many ways) is perceived as a true representation of the governing power of the universe.
Reply
egro 11 years, 3 months ago
I prefer the explanation of atheism/theism and agnosticism/gnosticism as independent, rather than on a spectrum of belief. The atheism/theism is more of the position, whereas the agnosticism/gnosticism is confidence in that position. So there can be gnostic theists, gnostic atheists, agnostic theists, and agnostic atheists.
Regarding Zeus (and other gods no longer worshipped), they were probably just replaced by a different belief that made more sense to the people at that time and place. As I commented below, I expect that as we discover more about our universe, the current favored religions will also abate.
Reply
skilletboy 11 years, 3 months ago
1 Corinthians 2:14-16 - "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
Wow, that's convenient. Want to know who wrote that passage? A natural man did, that's who. :)
Reply
Rynomyte 11 years, 3 months ago
A natural man who was admitting that he was just a child in Christ, and could only speak of those things of flesh, not that he could determine the mind of God.
Reply
skilletboy 11 years, 3 months ago
@mattlockhart and @Rynomyte
actually wrong and wrong...
And your inability to distinguish the difference ironically proves my point.
Reply
Mattlockhart 11 years, 3 months ago
Really? A flesh and blood human being didn't write the bible, translate it from ancient Hebrew into the many proceeding languages, and then create different variations (NIV, KJ, NKJ, etc)?
I realize there is no way to dispute the argument used by biblical believers that "god inspired the authors of the scriptures". However, You cannot dispute the fact that humans have had their dirty hands all over it for almost 4,000 years! You can quote scriptures all you want, that doesn't make the bible any more divine than the Torah, the book of Mormon, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Quran, Tao Te Ching, or the Satanic Bible. And it most certainly doesn't give credence to your argument any more than if I were to quote Dr. Seuss in arguing all eggs are green.
BTW, you don't have a point. You never stated a point. You posted a passage from a book. That said nothing.
Reply
egro 11 years, 3 months ago
We're are fortunate to be alive during this time. The body of scientific knowledge has grown amazingly over the past 100 years, and has provided explanations for numerous phenomena that previously were unknown. I expect that as our knowledge increases, more people will come to the same realization as Stephen Hawking.
Reply